The Science of Fall: How Leaves Change Color and Why It Matters

In this episode of Wildly Curious (formerly For the Love of Nature), co-hosts Katy Reiss and Laura Fawks Lapole dive into the science behind the stunning colors of fall. Learn how the combination of sunlight, temperature, and chemical processes transform leaves into a brilliant array of reds, oranges, and yellows. From the role of chlorophyll to the environmental factors that affect vibrancy, Katy and Laura explore the fascinating mechanisms that create the autumn spectacle we all love. Plus, discover the best spots in the U.S. to catch peak leaf color!

Perfect for nature lovers, science enthusiasts, and anyone who wants to understand the beauty of fall from a new perspective.

Transcript

Hello, and welcome to For the Love of Nature, a podcast where we tell you everything you need to know about nature and probably more than you wanted to know. I'm Laura.

And I'm Katy. And today, we are talking about how the true beauty of leaves are revealed as they die in the fall. Die, leaves die.

I feel like there's something very, like, philosophical about it all. Ah, yes, the true beauty revealed as something dies.

Yeah. This will be another one. But this will be another one where you have some random crisis in the middle of it of just, like.

I hope not.

I hope not either.

As we both thought, like, ha. You never know.

Life's too chaotic right now to be talking about other freak outs, like, leaf color changes. So, I don't have, I don't have any nature news.

Um, trying to think of what's been happening recently. When we're recording this tonight is the Harvest Full Moon. That's kind of cool.

It is? Oh yeah, I guess it is.

The Harvest Moon.

Yeah, I didn't even think about that. Well, look at that. What do you know?

There you go. There's some news.

The other weird thing that I've noticed about, like, living in Texas, or just the South in general, was like, I remember growing up in the Northeast, and you come home and it's dark in the winter.

Oh yeah, because the mountain's blocking it.

But like down here, it's not... I mean, it gets dark early, yes, but it's like 7, 7.30 early. It's not like five o'clock and it's dark outside already, you know?

It's almost like ridiculously early, so.

I guess because it's also flat and you've got the last bit or like the last rays, right?

Just so much. Well, we're gonna split this one up as we talk about death and leaves.

Nothing better to talk about in autumn than death.

Than death and dying.

But I will say, I mean, that is one thing I do miss about being in the Northeast is the vibrant color change. And I keep saying, one of these falls, I'm gonna get up to see my brother in Colorado and go up and see Aspen's change, because it is crazy. And I have some-

Oh, I'm sure, like a torch.

Yeah, I have some other friends. Yeah, it's just nuts how bright it is.

I need to get further north. I really want to go to Vermont or Michigan.

Oh yeah.

And see the sugar maples, because we've got sugar maples here, but not in quantities. It's not the whole forest of sugar maples, so everything's crazy colors.

Yeah, it's still bright, but I mean, especially when you compare it to some place like Texas, which is like, I mean, right now, you just go from green to brown.

That's so depressing.

Like that's all that it really is, green to brown, that's it. But all righty, so we're gonna divide this up. I'm gonna talk about what causes seasons, and then Laura is gonna talk about, what are we moving to after that?

The chemistry of the color change, because I think a lot of people love fall leaves, and they're like, oh, it's beautiful, but I haven't really stopped to think about what it is, why it happens, and how it happens.

Yep, and then I'm gonna be talking about the colors and affecting color vibrancy, and then Laura's gonna finish it up by talking about the best places in the US to go see the color change.

So I'm sure other places in the world also change if you live in the right kind of climate, but I'm gonna point out some places in the US for our listeners here.

All righty, so let me go ahead and kick it off. So what causes seasons? So, and this is, I mean, general, regardless of where you live, it'll just be opposite.

So as a refresher, because at some point, again, like so much of what we talk about, you learned at some point in school. You learned this at some point. Yeah, just a long time ago.

And one of those things, it's like, I don't need to know that. Well, here we are telling you again of why you should remember it. So as the earth spins on its axis, producing night and day, of course, it also moves about the sun in an elongated circle, elliptical pattern, not circular.

And it requires, of course, 36 and a half and one fourth day to complete, hence sleepier. The earth's spin axis is tilted in respect to the orbital plane. So as it's like cut in the middle, it tilts a little bit, and that's what causes the seasons.

So the autumn equinox, which is what we're in right now in the Northern Hemisphere anyway, is when two moments of the year when the sun is exactly above the equator and day and night are of the equal lengths.

Yeah, so that would have been what? September 21st?

20th? 22nd. 22nd?

Yeah, yeah. So that's whenever it's 50-50, halfsies. And so either of the two points in the sky where the elliptic pathway and celestial equator intersect.

So in the Northern Hemisphere, the autumn equinox, oh wait, I say it, yeah, happens about September 20th or 23rd. And even though we celebrate the first day of fall on the 22nd, the actual equinox can kind of vary just because of that. Yeah, especially because of that 365 and one fourth day.

That's kind of what moves it a little bit. So as the sun crosses that celestial equator going south, that's on as it crosses on that day, that's how we know. In the southern hemisphere, the equinox occurs on either March 20th or 21st.

And that's whenever the sun moves north across the celestial equator. So according to the astronomical definitions of the season, the autumn equinox also marks the beginning of autumn, which lasts until the winter solstice, which is December 21st or second. And then in the southern hemisphere, it's June 20th or the 21st.

So outside of the tropics, autumn marks the transition from summer to winter in September or March.

Oh my gosh.

Right? So day length decreases and night length increases as the season progresses until the winter solstice in December or June. One of the main features in the temperate climates is a striking color.

That's what we're all talking about today for the leaves as they begin to shed. So earth though isn't the only planet that experiences equinox. Every planet in our solar system, of course, has them.

And so I'm not going to go into this. I'll skip over this, but there has actually been a lot of research that scientists have done on different planets and how on those plants, because obviously they don't have trees and things or people for the equinoxes to affect it. But scientists have done studies on like, hey, this would be cool if, or what would happen, what happens, what affects, does this affect anything at all?

So I kind of went into that. We'll go ahead and skip over that because even though it's cool, it doesn't really talk about death and dying leaves.

Beautiful color change!

Right? So that's it. So that's what causes this season.

I mean, it's pretty black and white. I mean, there's not a whole lot else. It's just as we're going around the sun on this rock.

Just that old trip around the sun.

Yeah, that's what happens.

Because of those seasons then, that, like Katy said, kicks off lots of things in the environment. So the fall, as temperatures drop, as the light changes, anytime temperature changes and light changes, that affects plants and animals. Our animal bodies can just tell, and plants can too.

So a lot of us, well, okay, no. Most of us who are listening are familiar with green being the default color for plants.

Except for if you're in Texas. Again, then it's green or brown.

Leaves being no exception to this rule. So that green color is due to chlorophyll, which again, you probably learned about sometime in the past. And that is where, leaves are where the food for the entire tree is made, that chlorophyll is doing the work.

So they're turning sunlight and water and whatnot into sugary sweetness for the tree. And deciduous trees, meaning ones that have those larger leaves and the ones that lose them each year, deciduous trees do this during the warmer, sunnier months. That's when they're making food.

They need that sunshine. But as soon as the light and temperature changes, like Katy said, as it does in the fall, the leaves stop making food and the chlorophyll starts to break down. So there's just not enough sunshine and it starts to get too cold.

And so the leaves are like, can't do it. And the trees are like, okay, well, if you're not gonna work, we don't need you anymore. So they just cut off.

They constrict the vessels that are going into the leaves and out of the leaves. So the leaves aren't getting any more water and sugar is being concentrated in the leaves. The chlorophyll is breaking down, so that green color is breaking down.

And once it is gone, it reveals the pigments in the leaves, some that were there the entire time, which is mind-blowing to me that like, trees are always crazy colors. We just couldn't see it because the green was just taking over. So one of the colors that's, there's two things that are usually always there, and they're pigments.

So pigments are just like color things, things that are produced to make color. And those pigments in the leaves that are always there are carotenes, think carrot, orange.

I'm having botany flashbacks.

Yes. Or ornithology, because I definitely remember learning about bird feathers too with this.

Yeah, true.

So carotenes and xanthophils. Xanthophils are the yellow ones. So tree leaves are always have yellows and oranges.

Chemical processes, though, can occur in those leaves. Like I said, that sugar is being more and more and more concentrated, and all of a sudden a new pigment can show up, and that is the anthocyanins, which are the red ones. So the combination of all these pigments results in the reds, the purples, the oranges, the yellows, and even the browns.

And those browns, apparently what's most common in Texas, that's like after all the sugar is gone from the leaf. So the tree is going to use every last bit. It's going to cut off supply to the leaf, but then it's going to absorb everything it can.

And then the only thing left in that leaf will be tannins, and tannins are brown. So that will be what's left.

I will say one of the most annoying things about people here in Texas is they are insistent on things that go brown in the fall. That's normal. And in the winter, normal.

Definitely normal.

People will hardcore water their lawns till death do us part to get that green, or try to attempt to get that green lawn. And it's like, guys, I know you like it, but get turf.

It needs to go through that.

It is.

Oh, man, you're getting old. We're going to fight it till the end. We're going to fight it.

Creams and dyes and everything. So these deciduous trees also shed their leaves, since they aren't functioning anymore. Like I said, the trees are just cutting their losses.

So special cells grow where the leaf attaches to the tree and severs that connection so that the next time the wind blows, it just falls off. And the tree seals that cut and forms a tiny little scar there. And then it will be fine and ready to grow the next year.

But basically, the tree is entering a period of dormancy where it's just resting. So at work, I always tell the kids, the trees are just sleeping. They're hibernating too, just like animals.

So those colors.

But whenever you're walking through a forest up north, like in the winter, how eerily silent it is.

Yes, so quiet.

It's neat, but yeah, very, very eerily quiet. It's almost like it, like, I don't know, because in the summer, you hear the leaves blowing, and it's almost like a white noise that you don't notice it's there. And in the fall, or the winter, it's just quiet.

Plus the temperature of the air and stuff affects sound travel.

Yeah, and it's just so quiet. So quiet. Anyway, continue.

Oh, I was just going to say last thing about that. So that's kind of like the chemistry that happens, like, you know, colors are already there and being revealed, or new colors are made, like the anthocyanins, because of the sugar, like the chemical processes happening in the leaves. And some trees have more, some trees have less, and lots of trees are different colors, like they have different pigments inside of them.

So like, for example, we have poplar trees around here, poplar trees are going to be yellows, so they've got way more xanthophils in them. Whereas like sugar maples, they're known for turning like crazy oranges and reds, so they've got more of the carotenes and the anthocyanins. So depending on the species of tree, depends on the color that is produced, not the vibrancy, which is what Katy will talk about, but the actual colors that it will be.

Like you will, you'll like never see a beach tree turn purple. That's just not what they do. Whereas a dog would turn purple because of a combination of like the reds and the browns.

And scientists actually aren't sure why. I was reading an article that they're not sure why they actually change color. Like what's the evolutionary purpose of this?

There's two thoughts like or two shots in the dark. One is, okay, maybe it's a protection. Like these vibrant colors are warnings to not eat them to animals.

Like the trees are trying to suck every last drop out of these leaves.

Hey guys, I'm about to be kind of dead for a little bit. Can you just like not eat me?

Yeah, I need the last of this sugar. So pretend I'm poisonous for a little bit.

Yeah.

So it could be that. Or they think that it could also be some sort of like natural sun block, essentially for the leaves, because the sunshine can be more intense in the fall.

Yeah.

So maybe it's a way to protect the leaves from like decomposing before the tree can get everything out of them.

Makes sense.

Maybe, maybe not.

Nobody really knows.

Once we can finally communicate with trees, we'll know the answer.

Listen, they're going to communicate. It's going to be like aliens. They're just going to reach out to us one day.

We'll be like, Oh my God, you've always been here. Just freak out.

So that's the science of leaf change color. And just as a note, not all trees do it. Only the deciduous trees do.

Those evergreen plants, like conifers, like pine trees and firs and all of that stuff, they figured out a way that they don't need to lose their leaves. So they can just because the temperature and changes and the light changes, they're fine. They keep on making food.

Those conifers.

Hey man, they figured it out.

They have.

They just weighed their options.

It's a give and take.

But again, like you would think, I mean, because I know it's like the energy and all that stuff, but at the same time, it's like it goes back to that evolution question. Like why would one, you know, why one and not the other? I mean, I guess I know the leaves are different.

Maybe that has something to do with it.

But yeah, I mean, the pine trees are made to take the cold. Oh, yeah. Like they're protected with wax.

They don't need as much water.

But again, like regular trees could have, like, did you guys not figure this out? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I guess like they're, yeah, they decided why bother trying to figure it out when we can just live here instead.

Why bother?

That's like asking me like, you know, sure, could I survive in? I don't know, the Arctic? Yeah, but like, why would I go there?

Why? I'll just live here.

Yeah, right. Oh, that's funny. All righty.

So now I'm going to go into the colors and how it affects the vibrancy. And I hope that I don't overlap you, Laura, too much. Oh, it's okay.

Some of it's going to overlap. But again, they say for people to remember things, repeat it, repeat it, repeat it again. So here we go.

You're going to know so much about fall when we're done. I've also had a weird hankering to go bobbing for apples this fall. I don't know why.

That is a weird hankering. That is disgusting.

Maybe just because I haven't bobbed for apples since, I don't know, I was like five.

Yeah, I was definitely going to say the last, like literally the one and only time, probably five.

I am totally trying to figure out how I could work that into our work's Halloween party of just being...

Everybody's swapping spit in that pool.

Well, no, it would be like you get your own...

Probably bobbing, yeah. I'm going to bob for apples in private.

But I've just been like, man, I haven't bobbed.

I was thinking, I was driving home one day and I was like, man, I have not bobbed for apples in forever.

Dude, it's hard from what I remember as a kid. It is freakishly hard.

I think that's maybe why I want to do it, because it was so hard as a kid.

Yeah, I was like, maybe it's like one of those things, like playing the Lion King game that used to be on the Super Nintendo.

Oh my gosh, that thing was so hard.

Okay, and playing it as an adult, still hard, dude, like still impossible.

Like I can still only make it to the elephant graveyard and not anything past that. Like I'm still like son of a gun.

And so I think it's the same thing as like, is this going to be as hard as I remember it to be?

I think it would be really funny to do like, man, and only like, it would only be entertaining really with somebody like you, but like to do like a timed experiment of like bobbing for different fruits and vegetables. You know, like, okay, is this like tomatoes a lot harder?

Can Katy bob for pineapples?

Listen, listen, we can do a live stream.

If we get enough people...

Oh my gosh, that would be so funny.

Listen, I will totally, I will find a bucket, and I will bob for a variety of fruits and vegetables. We'll post about it, and we'll try to get enough people in on it to watch.

I would too.

Corn, I'm sure, is very easy, because you can get your teeth around that easy. But like, yeah, there's got to be some hard ones. Orange is virtually impossible.

Well, yeah, because it's the toughness. I even think corn... Okay, so this is how I envision corn.

I am so sorry to our listeners, but I feel like corn, yes, it would be easy, but I feel like you have to be fast because of the water. So you have to be like...

Like a dog with a bone. Exactly. But that's what I'm picturing.

But hurry up and snap it, because if you're not quick, yes, it's soft, but if you're not quick enough to grab it, it's just going to not go anywhere.

And do we think cucumbers would be worse or better? Because they're so similar, but they have different textures.

Yeah, and cucumbers are a lot harder, and it depends, but it also, I feel like, would depend on an organic cucumber versus a not, because the non-organic cucumbers, they have more wax coating on the outside.

Yeah.

To keep it like, so I feel like with that, it could get slippery.

Only I would think of them to like, yeah, let's try bobbing with different things. Screw the apples, let's try something else.

All right, I will totally, I will bob for whatever. Laura, give me a list, and we will do a live stream of just Katy bobbing for a variety of vegetables.

That would be fun. I would do it too. You could do it like it, and then challenge me to beat your records.

This should be good. Okay, Laura and I are going to make it happen. We're going to bob.

Five, we'll choose five, fruits and vegetables.

Okay, okay, we'll get together offline, and we'll figure out what five, and we'll do a live stream of it.

Sorry, people, anyway, vibrancy, bobbing for apples.

Right, okay, so let's go ahead and go into what affects the color vibrancy. So again, some of this might be a repeat from Laura. So the bright weather during the autumn can promote more intense color production.

Like Laura was talking about, the red, rich, and crier sunlight for production are enhanced by cold and sunny days.

Which I remember that...

Cremature falling. Nobody likes it.

Nobody likes it. Nobody likes it. But I also remember that as a kid, like growing up north where you would have like the perfect weekends and you'd be like, yes, you know you're just like a few days away from like the absolute best fall leaves colors.

And then you get a horribly bad storm, and you're like, there goes all the leaves. That's it. So the timing of many individual species, autumn coloration and leaf drop, is being documented.

One place that's really focusing on this is from Harvard University in the Harvard Forest. So they have been spending a lot of times with webcams, everything like that, and measuring and looking at the variety of color vibrancy to just study this a little bit more. Because again, it's one of those things that we've all seen of some variety, shape, or form.

But Harvard is just like, let's just really figure this out. So the changes along with the timing of the plants flowering and leaf development in the spring are part of what's called phenology, which is what they're studying. And so temperature differences between anything that happens like the growing in the spring can happen what's happening in the fall.

Can affect what's happening. What's happening? Can affect what's happening in the fall.

So the orange pigments, like Laura was talking about, are present in leaves year round and get to shine when the green core field takes a break. Because the orange pigments are constant, their shariness in the fall is predictable, but the red pigments are created in the autumn in response to light, plant chemical changes, temperature, and water supply. This is where weather affects the brilliance of the fall color displays are most notably.

Looking back on it, I remember thinking, okay, the different temperatures, it does affect the vibrancy. I just never really put the two and two together.

Crispier full days that everybody likes, that's going to make better colors.

Yeah, so warm days and low temperatures, which low temperatures, meaning still above freezing, at night boost the production of red pigments, producing a more dazzling display. But early frosts weaken the colors, which makes sense. What weather makes for the best fall show?

Let's just call it. So the US Forest Service says, a succession of warm sunny days and cool crisp but not freezing nights seems to bring out the most spectacular color displays, which makes sense. It's like those beautiful warm fall days that are still chilly.

I'm thinking flannel and jeans and boots. But then at night, you're like, this shit's too cold. That's what brings out the best displays.

The other thing that affects it is also moisture. Again, all year round. So a late spring or severe summer drought can delay the onset of the fall color.

So it doesn't just have to do anything with the fall all year. A warm wet spring, favorable summer weather, and warm sunny fall days with cool nights should produce the most brilliant autumn colors. So warm wet spring, not too high, not too cold.

You know, summer, just like an average warm summer. And then warm sunny fall days and cool nights. That's when you're going to get like the insanity.

So if you're looking... Chef's Kiss of fall. So if you're looking, if you're thinking like, hey, this is the year I think I want to go up to one of the places, Laura, let's look at the temperature in the spring.

And if it's starting to be a warm wet spring, and you're like, this could be it.

Yeah.

And then you go into a pretty... We get our crap together and stop this whole global warming stuff in these hundred and gajillion days in Texas or even anywhere else. Because I know it was really hot up in the Northeast too this summer.

Oh, yeah.

And so if we stop that bull crap, and we just start to get back to normal summer temps, that's whenever you can start being like, yep, this is going to be the year. Book a trip. Yeah, book a trip.

This is going to be the year. So how bright the fall colors are and how long we get to experience them varies based on what happens in this growing season. So both us and Mother Nature, of course, influence the fall colors of our landscapes as we both affect the temperature, light, and soil moisture our trees experience.

So again, I know we talked about, was it in the mosses episode we were talking about the moisture and the importance of moisture for trees? Yeah, same thing. Like the mosses play a key role in all of this because the trees need to say, like they need to have that moisture.

They need to experience it or again, burp, no fall. So anyway, that typically is what affects the vibrancy.

That's your peak.

So Laura, if you want to go into then the best places to go, we can wrap it up.

Yeah, and you'll notice here too that because temperature has a lot to do with it, that means elevation also has a lot to do with it because the higher up you go, the cooler it is. So to see any kind of color change at all, you need to live in a temperate climate where there are distinct seasons. So for any listeners that live in the tropics, I'm sorry, you've got to go visit the temperate climates to see fall in all its glory.

It's absolutely worth it. You're going to want to visit places in what's called peak. So there's actually a really cool map.

If you Google fall foliage maps on Farmers Almanac, there was a really awesome time lapse one where they show the whole US and its changing color in a wave because it does start up north and then work its way south as temperatures lower throughout the US. But peak is when more than 50% of the trees have changed color. So more than 50%, you're in peak.

So at least in my neck of the woods, so Maryland and Pennsylvania, you're looking at mid to late October as peak. But further north, it's going to be earlier. Further south, it's going to be later.

And again, that all depends on the things that I talked about.

I say usually mid to late October, but it can be not that depending on weather.

Because I was up fall last the beginning of November, and I was up there for a funeral, but still it was beautiful. So I was my grandfather. I loved him, but he got COVID.

He was old. He was a great man. He lived a long, great life.

So it was perfect. So Pap, thank you for... If you're going to die, thank you for doing it in the fall.

At peak.

At peak, at peak fall. Because I haven't seen fall foliage. Foliage.

Yeah, fall foliage.

I'm losing my mouth. But I haven't seen the fall colors change in years.

So that was good. Thank you, Pap.

Thanks, Pap. So yeah, you're going to want to visit places in peak, and you can check those out by doing a Google search. In the US the northern states are known more for their change in the southern.

But like I said, elevation plays a part. So North just experiences those colder temps at night and still some warm days. And it's got the different types of trees.

What trees, like I said earlier, are certain colors. So you're going to have the further... And trees live in certain places depending on soil moisture and sunlight and things like that.

So things like sugar maples, that's the tree where you're going to get all those crazy flame colors. Sugar maples like the North. Not that other trees aren't beautiful, but...

But some are just better.

So I looked up the best places, according to the Travel and Leisure magazine, which I feel like they know what they're talking about. I'm just going to go down the list, and you're going to notice, like I said, a lot of them are either up north or in the mountains. Here we go.

Bar Harbor, Maine. Ozark National Forest, Arkansas. Interesting.

Catskill Mountains, New York. Stowe, Vermont. Columbia River Gorge, Oregon.

The Eastern Shore of Maryland. North Conway, New Hampshire. Lennox, Massachusetts.

The Poconos and PA, which are mountain area. I think Taos. I don't know how you say that.

New Mexico, T-A-O-S. Taos, New Mexico.

Interesting. Oh, yeah, the mountains, yeah.

And then you get a couple of southern places that are just surprising, but I guess mountains.

Well, I mean, Arkansas was surprising to me.

So the next one is Amicalola Falls State Park in Georgia. I would never think Georgia would be amazing. Franklin, Tennessee.

Well, I mean, that's where the Appalachian Trail, though, starts, is down in Georgia, too.

That's true. That's true. So it's got to have some good mountains.

Franklin, Tennessee, Brooklyn, New York, Cape Cod, Massachusetts, Aspen, Colorado, Wisconsin Dells, Wisconsin, Mesopequah Preserve in New York, and Okanogan Wenatchee National Forest in Washington. So northwest, northeast, and the occasional spot down south, if you can find mountains.

Interesting. I mean, we lived in Arkansas. I was there for what, six years?

I mean, it changed, but...

Yeah, and I got up to the Ozarks once, but I went in May, so I didn't see peak up there. Yeah, interesting. But yeah, sorry, no places in Texas.

You'll have to go to Arkansas or Georgia.

I'll go see Aspen. Yeah, I'll go to Colorado, see my brother again. All right, guys, well, I hope you enjoyed that episode and all the death.

But the beauty, the beauty is what we're going to fixate on. It's been on a whole negative.

Yeah, dead leaves.

Just because things are dying, and as a kid, I didn't fall very much. I did think it was kind of depressing because my mood is very affected by the seasons and weathering. So as things are dying and after the leaves are gone, and it's just cold and dreary.

Yeah, but listen, seasonal depression is a legit thing. And whenever I was in the North, like when I was back home, Pittsburgh, I mean, and you don't see that sun most of the year. It's a legit thing where it's like Texas, like that sun is always out.

Like even if it's cold, you have a sunny day. Like it definitely makes a huge difference.

So yeah, I didn't like fall that much. But I think once I hit college, then I started like actually liking, I've always loved Halloween and things. But now I think I like fall is my second favorite season.

You like the fall activities, but not so much fall.

Yeah, but now I'm more about like all of fall. Like, yeah, it's more my jam now. So that, you know, just because sometimes it can be depressing that, you know, everything's going dormant, it's also exciting and beautiful.

Well, yeah, because I mean, it has to do that in order to give a spring anyway. So we need change.

Change just got to accept it and it's okay. It doesn't have to be bad. Boy, that's philosophical.

There we go. There's our philosophical. There we go.

And on that note, we're going to go ahead. All right, we go ahead and we'll definitely be posting when we're going to do those bobbing for apples. We're making it happen.

Listen, if we can make a freaking caving episode happen, we're making bobbing for a variety of things. We'll think of a catchy name for it. But we're going to make it happen.

We'll do a live stream on it, so make sure you follow us on our social media channels, and we'll do it at some point. I'm very excited to bob for a variety of things.

Why not? Embrace our other children.

Why not?

Right? Let's do this. All right, guys, we will talk to you next week.

See ya.