ADHD Unmasked: Understanding Strengths, Struggles, and Science

In this insightful episode of Wildly Curious, hosts Katy Reiss and Laura Fawks Lapole dive deep into the world of ADHD. From the brain’s unique wiring to the day-to-day challenges and incredible strengths of those with ADHD, this episode explores it all. Learn about the science behind impulsivity, forgetfulness, and hyperfocus, as well as how reframing ADHD can uncover the power and potential within. Whether you have ADHD, love someone who does, or simply want to learn more, join Katy and Laura for a heartfelt and humorous exploration of what it means to live with an ADHD brain.

Perfect for anyone curious about neuroscience, personal growth, or strategies for thriving with ADHD!

Transcript

Laura: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Wildly Curious, a podcast that tells you everything you need to know about nature and probably more than you wanted to know. I'm Laura.

Katy: And I'm Katy, and today we're going to be talking about how ADHD's unique challenges and strengths can be reframed to reveal that power and potential within.

Laura: Woo! And the science y stuff behind the

Katy: Yes. Which we've done an episode a while ago, which I didn't realize how long ago it was, but we did one

Laura: it was like more than a year, or , was it a year or two years

Katy: Two years. Two years ago

Laura: gosh, I can't believe it was that long. That was such a good episode that we, that I think people really liked I think because of, one, a lot of listeners, a lot of curious people are probably ADHD,

Katy: Right?

Laura: that like we're just, we were very vulnerable talking about, because it wasn't just ADHD, we covered very broadly 

Katy: Mm hmm. 

Laura: the neuroscience behind ADHD and OCD.

But we figured let's dive deeper because I think that people really want to hear about stuff like this

Katy: Yeah, yeah. And it's just, I think, because you're not going to talk so naturally about this kind of stuff, it makes it fun, too.

Laura: Yeah, [00:01:00] yeah,

Katy: So, well, so we're going to go into, we're going to briefly introduce it, and then we're going to break it down into the two types. So everybody knows that there's the inattentive and then the hyperactive.

 Technically there's three because they're a combined type. , so I was, Diagnosed with ADHD as a little kid and very quickly in and I mean in hindsight now back then they called it ADHD or

Laura: right it was one or the

Katy: Yeah, it was just it was yeah, it was one or the other. I have both because God decided My you know, just make her extra spicy and just extra spunky.

So let's just give her all the struggles that come with this So we're gonna break down the two and then combined type is just literally you have both and then We're going to talk about the different diagnostic criteria that fall under each, , that are pretty generalized and then just explore what's happening in the brain as to why those things are the way that they are kind of thing.

So I guess I can give a brief overview of [00:02:00] ADHD and what it is. So you guys know it's attention, deficit hyperactivity disorder, which there's a lot of beef with that name because it's not really a deficit of anything. It's just part. dopamine, serotonin, there's different chemicals within your brain.

And basically with ADHD, those chemicals don't flow from one part to your brain to another as, as, as it should. 

Laura: It's not necessarily that you don't even have enough It's that you might not have enough transmitter. You might not have enough little what am I saying? You The little thingamabobs that even grab the transmitters.

Katy: Yeah. It just doesn't flow the right way to the right places. So there's enough in it. It can just get backlogged a bit and in one area before it goes to another area. And a lot of the. Diagnostic criteria is, you'll see a lot of overlap between like impulsivity, memory issues, and it's because all those key areas are like multiple parts of your brain that handle all those things, or pretty much they handle the same things [00:03:00] again and again which is why there's a lot of overlap

Laura: Yeah, and even with, most people, not everyone is combined type, but most people have at least, they dabble to a

Katy: and both,

Laura: in both areas, yeah.

Katy: yeah. And so, to be, , Actually diagnosed with ADHD, it has to be, cause, and that's, it, it bugs me that whenever people are like, Oh, everybody's a little ADHD. Okay. Yes. But yes, everybody at one point or another is going to have a little bit of these symptoms. But for somebody who actually has ADHD, these things become so big that it impairs their day to day life.

 It has a hit on their day to day life to make it difficult, 

Laura: Yeah, and if you want to look up, like the exact, if you really are like, I might have ADHD and we don't want to just diagnose ourselves with this, like there are some hit things, for example, you have to be diagnosed with one of those types. Only one of the specifications says that you have to have six or more of the following symptoms persistent for at least six [00:04:00] months to a degree that is inconsistent with developmental level and that negatively impacts Social and academic slash occupational activities.

So yeah, like it's not just okay one thing here and there for a while No, we're talking like multiple symptoms for a long period of time that are directly impacting your life

Katy: Yeah. Yeah, and sometimes debilitating, impacting, for sure. And too, and so, because, , Laura and I are both women, if you can't guess by our names, for women, unfortunately, hormones play a huge part in this too, and symptoms can definitely get better and worse every month, depending on where you are in your cycle, depending on where you are in your life, and that just adds extra suckiness to

it. 

 So we're gonna go into the different diagnostic criteria, and it is gonna have, a positive spin on this. , my big beef with all of this normally is that whenever you look at the diagnostic criteria, it's always focusing on the negatives.

What makes it difficult, what makes it the quote unquote, mental disorder. Alright, but it has so many, good, positive [00:05:00] Perks to it that if we just start to those who do have ADHD or if you're listening out there You don't have ADHD, but you know somebody who does start to reframe your mind and how you're looking at this because it does have perks and especially if you're a spouse because spouses a lot of times struggle if you're neurotypical and You don't have ADHD or anything else It can be very challenging to understand where we're coming from with things, but there are so many freaking good benefits that if you just learn to lean into the benefits side of it and be curious and more helpful and understanding and patient about the things that like don't make sense.

There are so many perks, especially as a spouse and a partner that like, Pay off to you that if you just know what to lean into and what to help understand it just yeah It has so many great benefits.

Laura: Right. Because Katy and I will be the first to tell you there are cons. There is detriment. But, it's all about how, can you harness that? , can you develop, well, no you can't develop habits because you're ADHD. Can you [00:06:00] develop, schedules that help you, you know what I mean?

 Workarounds, essentially. We're always developing workarounds. Right.

Katy: Yep. Yep. All right. So laura's gonna go over it inattentive and then i'm gonna go over hyperactive So

Laura: Yeah, and we'll chime in with each other and like how this is affecting us, too. , so inattentive, is just like Katy was saying in the beginning, is one of the three types of ADHD. Or, and it's what used to be called, back when I was diagnosed, ADD. Like in the early 2000s. , so to have inattention, you have to have six or more of those, of the following symptoms that we're gonna talk about.

 They're kind of lumped into five big categories, but there are nine symptoms. You have to have six of them. And real quick also before we get started, so, you know, Katy was saying a little bit about the neurotransmitter stuff, but, I know we talked about this in our first ADHD episode, which was that ADHD affects several areas of the brain.

 Including the frontal cortex, limbic system, basal ganglia, and reticular activating system. And it is the [00:07:00] problems transmitting signals. And depending on what area of the brain is, and what transmitters, is going to be more or less like what your symptoms. So somebody who is inattentive is having different problem areas.

For the most part than somebody who's impulsive like impulsive is going to be more of like your basal ganglia and stuff Whereas your frontal cortex is all is a lot of like your organization and focus and things like that

Katy: Yeah. I always say that if you know somebody, you know, for the most part, no two people with a DHD have all the same symptoms. A DH, ADHD is more of okay, here's this grouping, this big bowl of symptoms, , and then everybody just like reaches in and

grabs out some random 

Laura: make it fun a cocktail of

Katy: Right. So they just reach in and they pull some out and that's what they're born with is just like the randomness of it.

Laura: Yeah, cause it's all that brain chemistry. , speaking of which, one of the first grouping of symptoms is difficulty sustaining attention. And that's three symptoms. One, you often have [00:08:00] difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities, like focused during lectures, conversations, things like that.

You often avoid or just dislike, tasks that require sustained mental effort, homework if you're a kid, or if you're an adult, reports, forms, lengthy papers. And three, you often fail to give close attention to detail, which makes you have careless mistakes in work, schoolwork, or other activities.

 So what's happening in your brain that is causing this difficulty sustaining attention? , it's the, the problem for all of us with ADHD and it's that dopamine.

We were saying it's not even necessarily that you don't have a lot of dopamine in your brain. You might have just the right amount of dopamine, but maybe your, your little, , uptake thingamabobs between your neurons are, a little bit weird, so they're not sucking up the dopamine like they should be, but in general that is causing you to have low dopamine in certain areas of your brain, which makes it hard to stay focused, leading to a tendency to [00:09:00] zone out or jump between tasks.

Like it is just hard to sustain that attention. So real quick from me, of the three mentioned above,

I actually don't have that, I actually sometimes feel like I have the opposite problem. Which is too much focus on an activity. 

Like I hyper focus on things really easy. But I would say that for me, it's hard for me sometimes to sustain attention on conversations. Which is terrible because I'm all about conversations.

But I definitely, and unless you've experienced, you might not know, but , I can be listening to somebody, but only half of my brain is listening because all of a sudden the other half of my brain is wandering because I'm thinking about something else. 

Katy: Is super helpful in things like interviews because somebody can be asking a question and I can be talking while the other part of my brain is searching for the answer. So I'm talking and just filling up space until the other half of my brain is like, Oh, no, this is what you actually need to say.

So basically I [00:10:00] can bullshit until my brain catches up. And so it does have benefits of being like, all right, I'm just gonna keep saying, I'm gonna keep saying until I find the right words. Oh, boom, 

Laura: and there it is. 

Yeah, so I would say, my mind doesn't wander that much. I always, difficulty sustaining attention to me reminds me of, , someone who is like, Oh yeah, I was like a real daydreamer. I'm not, really. I am a, I'm a doer. I'm a busy person. So I, I make myself stay focused by staying busy. So I am able to sustain attention for very long periods of time.

 So this one is not me as much. 

But of course, there are times.

Katy: it's me. 

Laura: Yeah.

Katy: Because again, I'm combined type and so again, I said tell people like imagine, you know ADHD Yes, it's to actually have it. It's think of these things as everyone hits these spells occasionally Just think of 

everything 

Laura: of your time?

Katy: just think of it like as amplified. And so for me, like my brain can wonder, it just any time, [00:11:00] like it's not holding my attention, I'm often to something else and it feels horrible whenever it is people, , but , in a conversation or something, but that's also why like school for me was so difficult because the professor could be saying one thing.

And as soon as something catches my intrigue, I'm like mentally going down that other rabbit hole.

Laura: Yeah. Which is leading, which is definitely the next big category, which is being easily distracted. Because they're very similar, right? Like,

Katy: A lot of these are

Laura: all then, right? Easily distracted immediately leads you to, Well, I can't pay attention anymore because now I'm distracted. Yeah.

Katy: Yeah.

Laura: Now the next grouping is easily distracted. And there's two symptoms in here. One, often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly. Mine seems elsewhere, even in the absence of any obvious distraction. That's me. And two, is often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli.

So for older, like adults, this doesn't have to actually be [00:12:00] external stimuli,

Katy: Yeah, this isn't the 

squirrel. Yeah, this is 

Laura: this can be that, but it can just be your own brain, intrusive thoughts, which is a hundred percent me. , I am easily distracted by external stimuli. , I am a squirrel person, literally.

 If I see a squirrel, I will stop a conversation and be like, holy crap, look, there's a squirrel. But also intrusive thoughts, constantly, that have nothing to do with what I'm doing. , this is where, people, I feel like on TikTok, it's really come out, people with ADHD and neurotypical people are discovering one another.

Cause , the intrusive thoughts of ADHD of , you're just cooking in the kitchen, and then intrusive thought of you know what would be weird is if, and then it's just off on a thing. , it is, it's being distracted by my own thoughts of other things, or just crazy things.

Katy: Mm

Laura: Sometimes related and sometimes not.

So both of those, hardcore for me. So in your brain, what's happening? Your brain, at that moment, has a heightened sensitivity to any kind of stimuli, making it hard to filter out your distractions. So [00:13:00] this is a sensory issue.

Katy: hmm.

Laura: That your brain can't decide what's most important. It's taking in everything.

And so you're just like, whatever, take it as it comes. So , I'm not able to be like, take away that thought, take away that thought. I'll be like, let's explore it.

Katy: cuz remember if your brain not hitting enough dopamine We are always going to pick the path that is going to give us the dopamine. So it's all about positive reinforcement the reward Constantly 

about the reward. 

Laura: and it's about norep, and it, the other one, it's always hand in hand. It's dopamine and norepinephrine. It's about, it's like chasing the good thoughts, or not even good thoughts, like you might accidentally go down a bad one, but you're still like, yeah.

So, both of those for me, for sure. Okay, forgetfulness. Also worse with age. But.

Katy: I, my memory, just sucks. This is, for me, this is probably one of my worst. This and executive function is probably some, two of my worst, or I shouldn't [00:14:00] say worst ones, because there's definitely ones that are more prevalent for me. I would say this is probably one of the most, ones that interrupt my day to day, is just straight up forgetfulness.

Laura: So, this is really, this is a double edged sword for me.

Or, not a double edged sword because that's like both negative things. Mine's like a, like, it's one or the other. Okay, so with this one, the, the criteria is two things. One, , is often forgetful in daily activities. Like doing chores, running errands.

returning calls, paying bills, keeping appointments, and two, often loses things necessary for tasks like school materials, books, keys, wallets, paper. So memory for me, I can, my memory, I'm, was great at school because I am able to retain information like nobody's business and regurgitates it information.

Where I get forgetful is all of what they were just saying, I am notorious for losing my keys. I have a tile on my keychain because I've lost them multiple times. In high school, I was constantly losing my locker key. 

I lose, so I [00:15:00] lose things a lot. I can't keep track of things. 

Katy: So so let me let me ask you this though about you said about how you were so good in school But do you feel like you were so good in school because it interests you?

Laura: No, because I'm even able to retain, I can regurgitate math formulas.

I'm just, my memory, so I'm good with facts. , and I suppose, as an interpreter, I'm like, oh, it's because I'm just, I'm like a trivia per, I can remember those facts. So the school system is good for people like me.

Who can retain facts because that's what this is all this our school education system is about memorization It doesn't actually matter if you know the

Katy: Correct. That's that's where my

yet That's where my struggle is because I for me to remember I have to know I have to know the why it has to make sense for me

Laura: Yes, and it does definitely i'll retain the information longer But I can definitely I can keep on to things for short term But the things I can't remember It's hard for me. 

 Normal life skills, terribly [00:16:00] forgetful.

Katy: It also doesn't help, so there's a lot that goes along with ADHD that's very common for ADHD people that isn't a diagnostic, and one of those is, , time blindness. Time, and I've explained it to so many people, so time is more of a, we have to feel time.

And so something, if I saw you a week ago, that really feels like it's been, three, four weeks ago. It's, and so we have no concept of okay, I have to pay the bill once a month. That feels like such a long period.

Laura: retain that, that urgency for that 

long. My brain is like, it's not important, 

Katy: It's gone.

Laura: Which is so crazy because I am regularly getting other things that I'm thinking about, I just can't sustain the thought. Like, it can be moments to days, but it will go away. , but I could tell you who was in some movie.

Katy: Yeah.

Laura: Like, that's irrelevant information, but that my brain was like, I'm gonna put that one

away, but you're not gonna remember to go to the dentist next

Katy: [00:17:00] Yeah, right.

Laura: Like, what the heck? That's really like a weird brain thing, but 100 percent 

Katy: Yeah. Yeah.

Laura: Okay. Two more categories. Poor organization. This only has the one real life symptom, which is often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities.

For example, difficulty managing sequential tasks, difficulty keeping materials and belongings in order, messy, disorganized work, has poor time management, and fails to meet deadlines. This is like a personal attack. 

Katy: No, right.

Laura: all the things, 

Katy: Yeah, this one's tough to deal with, I think, because it makes it sound so horribly negative. It's because for me, I need organization to survive, but I'm also horrible at being organized.

Laura: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. organizing my time is very hard. Cause one, it's hard for me to prioritize tasks. It is hard for me to do that first. Once I, [00:18:00] then, once I prioritize the tasks, I, without fail, I will tell you it will take me an hour, but it will actually take me two

Katy: Yes. No

Laura: There's no concept of judgment of time.

Katy: Again, it's the time

Laura: You'd think you could do it enough times that you'd be like, I know that's only gonna that's gonna take me this long. No, Lara. No.

Katy: It's gonna be 

significantly 

Laura: longer. Significantly. If I say I'm gonna be there in five minutes, it will be ten. 

Katy: Cuz I don't know if we've ever, I don't think we've ever talked about this, but I had the recent revelation, I watched a video that was talking, and I think I sent it to you, that said about how people with ADHD cannot form habits, and I did not realize

Laura: I didn't either until, was it this past year?

Katy: I sent, I sent you something, and we were like, oh my god, I did not realize that when somebody , who's neurotypical, go through those steps of habits, that is what a habit is, without thought.

Laura: That was right. When I heard that, I was like, there's no way that this is possible. I actually went in and talked to people like at work, and I was like, you need to tell me right now, because I don't believe this

Katy: I need you to

Laura: that you [00:19:00] do things on autopilot. What are you talking about?

What are 

Katy: I have an SOP, so for my quote unquote, what I've thought was a habit my whole life, is actually like an SOP in my head.

Laura: A thousand

Katy: Step by step, I'm like, okay, I have to check the locks. Go check the top lock the bottom lock, go check. This, , and so it's an SOP.

So for me, the habit is to click on the switch that turns on that SOP every night, or like when I'm leaving the apartment,

Laura: But Lord forbid you don't click on the SOP at the right

time. Because then, my SOP in the morning is to get up, take pills, but then if I am late doing that,

Katy: it's

Laura: I question my own brain of like, did I, did I do, did I do

Katy: Did I turn, 

did I 

Laura: I'm normally so in this habit, now, now I've like glitched myself.

Katy: because you do forget because you know you're forgetful and that's my biggest

Laura: So, and that, so I no longer, it's hard to trust yourself when you know you're so forgetful.

Katy: you yeah because you know you're forgetful because you have done these things You have left the curling iron plugged in you have left the blow dryer [00:20:00] and clearly if you leave it plugged in this time It's going to burn everything down and people are 

Laura: is why this all leads to anxiety, ADHD can lead to such severe anxiety.

Katy: Oh my God. Yeah.

Laura: Plus the comorbidity of having an anxiety disorder anyway.

Katy: yeah, Or depression or 

Laura: just leading

Katy: Well, hold on. Let's, let's pause for one second. So if you guys have never heard , there's a lot of comorbid, disorders that you can have with it. There are a list of things in the top three, I believe are anxiety, depression, and dyslexia are like the top three that somebody has typically with ADHD.

Laura: And then there's some other, there are some other, there are so many other

ones really too. But those are the big ones, 

Katy: me, it's, it's, For me, it's dyscalculia. It's the, the math of dyslexia, essentially.. So I just wanted to insert like what comorbidity

Laura: Yeah, where in, in our last episode, we were talking about how, my comorbidity is an anxiety disorder. So, again, it's a cocktail. , not even just of ADHD, but. 

Katy: I just imagine somebody with a shaker [00:21:00] mixing a drink and it's just like all these symptoms and 

they're just 

Laura: Anne, that's 

Katy: yeah, yeah,

Laura: God.

Katy: yeah, yeah, let's make this one extra fun,

Laura: a wet bar up there. Yeah.

Katy: and stuff and he's just there pouring stuff in shaking it all up seeing what you get. 

Laura: Oh man, yeah, that organization, it really hits hard. Which is also Oh, and the habit thing, Which leads to the executive dysfunction, which is not really, again, is not a diagnostic criteria, but is very much like poor organization and the next one, which is difficulty following through on tasks.

This is not follow through. I'm talking executive dysfunction is just starting.

Katy: Yeah, it's hitting the start button.

Yeah, which is my hardest which is my heart this this and then the forgetfulness These are my two ones that

Laura: Executive dysfunction is my hardest

Katy: it just Debilitate you

Laura: we don't have habits. So like Katy was saying there's an SOP and sometimes those SOPs guys are so [00:22:00] freaking long I can't do it.

Like I was trying to explain

Katy: becomes overwhelming.

Laura: Yeah, , so for example, my SOP for bedtime, right? Would be alright, I'm laying on the couch, I'm on my phone. Now, next steps would be, I have to get up, I have to lock the front door, then I gotta go upstairs, and I gotta check on Allura, I have to brush my teeth, I have to get into pajamas, I have to set my alarm, and then I, there's like seven steps.

It's not just get up, go to bed, on autopilot.

I consciously make each decision.

Katy: and that's with most chores.

That's with washing the dishes and everything.

Laura: exactly, you see every step. It's not just load the dishwasher, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no. You have to rinse all those dishes, right? Putting them in the dishwasher, remembering to put the soap in, there's so many steps to everything.

Sometimes you're like, F that, I'm gonna lay on the couch. Which only exacerbates the problem! It's escapism at its worst, because you haven't started the task.

Katy: ADHD symptoms are literally our own worst enemies because everything, and that goes back [00:23:00] to the organization that you, for me, I thrive in having a very clean, organized place, but I'm horrible at staying organized, and so again, for me, that's where the struggle comes in is I need one thing to do something else, and so it's with the SOP, with the executive dysfunction.

Like I know I need to clean my place because I know I will feel better. I know I will function better because I feel better whenever I don't have clutter around me. Cause there's enough clutter in my head. But that switch to turn it on and off, like to just take that first step can be so overwhelming sometimes that like it gets to a point where, and I've, and I've done this where my apartment has been like not dirty cause I keep it clean, but it's been so disorganized.

Laura: you're stepping, I mean 

I grew up as a kid in my own rooms, I made paths, literal paths, because it was too overwhelming and so as a kid, like what this looked like for me as a kid, was, time to clean your room, put it off, put it off, put it off, and then, [00:24:00] Finally, when my parents were like, you have to worry about this yourself.

It is time to clean your room. The only way for me to do that and prioritize those tasks was to literally take all the loose things from all around my room and put them in a pile in the middle of the floor because that was the only way I could address 

everything. 

Katy: so , Luke and I have what we call our ADHD cart, , and it's literally a little cart on wheels, and because we have an open floor plan, and so everything that isn't where it's supposed to go, we put on the cart,

Laura: and then you just take it where it needs to go. 

Katy: yeah, and then we push that cart around and we push and take it from room to room to put it away, and 

Laura: Cause that's the only way to do it and it just sucks though because sometimes you get sucked in on a side project. And you have to avoid it at all

Katy: we're amazing at side quests. Anybody, anybody with ADHD is like, let me go chase this dopamine.

Laura: Cause you're cleaning and then you go to this room and then you realize that there's this task to do there and that might actually make you feel better and more productive.

And, and like the thing is, it's not,

Katy: I clean like a

Laura: The clutter isn't, yeah, yeah [00:25:00] definitely. , I definitely would do better with less clutter. But for me, it's the task like if I can I need to feel productive. I need to feel productive whatever that looks like Whether it's a task at work or at home That productivity makes me get that dopamine.

So if it does mean cleaning i'm gonna clean here so hard it's gonna be like I need to do five rooms today. And if I don't do five rooms I'm gonna feel I got nothing

Katy: Oh, yeah. We set such unrealistic goals for ourselves because I mean to be fair we know we could potentially get there Do we know but because it is because again, it's the time management the time blindness The ability to be able to predict how long something takes us.

Laura: Just like the other day I went on a giant cleaning spree which I don't do very much anymore because I can't with Allura around but I love a good cleaning spree in general or like running errands anything that can be like check check check Then I feel like a powerhouse and invincible and that's so good for me.

But Justin was like, hey, you know Like you've done a lot today. Why don't you just stop now? And I said, [00:26:00] oh 

Katy: can't can't 

Laura: here's the thing. I'm if I don't get this all done today things I might not actually do laundry for the next two weeks So today's the day. Today is the day I am riding this high until bedtime. 

Katy: yes, 

Laura: and and like, it is not like burn I mean it is burnout, but I am also harnessing the times that I know I can actually do

Katy: I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say it's burnout. And that's what I say like with chores with me all the time is, okay, if I, for me to get the laundry done, I have to have enough time to be able to put, do the laundry, dry it and fold it and clean it and put it

Laura: Oh yeah, I got piles of unfolded

Katy: If I, if I am feeling, again, a lot of with ADHD is like, if you're feeling up to it, do it then and there. Because if 

Laura: because if you wait, yeah, you, when you, when that switch turns on, you jump on

it, It's like, like a unicorn has come through your house, and you must grab it right then, because if not, that unicorn might not come around for like another month.[00:27:00] 

Katy: And 

Laura: It's insane! Like, it's insane.

Katy: Yes.

Laura: Alright, last thing for me.

Difficulty following through on tasks. This has the one symptom, often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace. For example, start tasks but quickly loses focus and is easily sidetracked.

Katy: is what we were talking about with the cleaning 

Laura: Sidequest. Yeah. And it's not even necessarily projects, I pride myself, so I consider myself like a completionist in a lot of ways.

Because I'm also a perfectionist which is another thing with ADHD because you're like I need to feel good My feel good is I have to do it 100 There is no less. Okay. I'm not even gonna start something unless i'm good at it Like, for me, I, that's why I'm not a big sports person, because if I don't think I'm gonna win, then I'm not even gonna try.

 I need to do it, and I need to do it well. I do projects, and I will follow through if it kills me. Right? I just might be on death's door when it's finished because I've stayed up. I will do [00:28:00] it. But I might not stick with it. I get sidetracked on sidequests and rabbit holes and, and then I am a hobby jumper.

So, right, it's the following through on things like hobbies. I am never gonna be like a lifelong violinist.

I

might learn to dabble on the violin and then I'm gonna hop. Oops, sorry.

Katy: I've had so many random hobbies that people are like, what what do you like to do in your spare time? What haven't I done in my 

Laura: yeah, 

Katy: like everything i've tried everything

Laura: Like all, which again, makes you like an amazing project person, because something crazy ends up happening and you're like, actually, weirdly enough, I have

experience with this. Just in like the weirdest things too, right?

Because I actually think that I thrive off of that, that, again, that

Katy: The odd.

Laura: the something that not anybody else is really into, so I'm gonna be really into it. Cross stitching in high school. Who's doing cross stitching and or sewing like hardcore I got a sewing machine and I was like i'm gonna sew stuffed animals and dresses and sweaters and and then immediately skip to something [00:29:00] Completely different like the native american flute,

Katy: Yeah, I was gonna say, if you go back and listen to our very first episode, when we talk about Zoog and Roo, and mine and Laura's band, and how funny we thought that was at the time, and , we're like, we're gonna do this. We're gonna panhandle, cause we're poor, 

and, 

Laura: months it was great we were in it and then hop 

Katy: and again, the fact that we, that, yes, we took a break for the podcast for a bit, but the fact that this is still ongoing, blows my

Laura: Yeah, yeah, this is for sure the longest

Katy: Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yeah. No, but and I'm very much to the same way like I Following through on tasks. Thankfully there's no like completion of hobbies Like you either do something or you don't you know what I 

Laura: right. Because it might kill me. 

Katy: Yes Yeah, 

because 

Laura: on video games, I'm the person that plays like that video game until it is done and I will never come back.

Katy: Yes, like I had the

flu. I had the flu one weekend and I beat red dead for redemption, too

Laura: Right, and you got all the achievement. Like I need the achievements. Like the whole video game system [00:30:00] is like terrible and no wonder it's so addictive for people with ADHD because it's like hitting all those things like, ooh, an achievement! You know, like.

Katy: I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. Yeah, and 

it just keeps hitting those. Yeah. All

Laura: And that's that's inattentive.

So I definitely had, I think I counted six. So I, five or six is what I had. And you have to have at least six to be just one. You have to have five in each to be both. So I think I'm actually combined as well, but that didn't exist when I got diagnosed.

Katy: I'm so combined type. I'm so ADHD I think that said this in the brains episode 2 where whenever I was seeing the new psychiatrist and thankfully I mean they do their due diligence and make sure that it is ADHD It's not something else. They give

Laura: Right. Ordinary right. You have not just self diagnosed yourself. You don't just come in saying, , I have this, this, and this, and this. I think I have ADHD. When they're like, no, we're gonna, , go down

Katy: yeah, we're gonna make sure it's not bipolar, not something that was overlooked before, and so they give you all these kinds of different [00:31:00] tests and I was so ADHD that, , it was showing up on my test for bipolar, Katy, you're not bipolar whatsoever, however, we can tell by your answers that you're ADHD, and, , thankfully, , my psychiatrist, she is so freaking amazing, if

Laura: is really interesting that you say that because I know somebody, I'm not gonna say who, but I know somebody that is so ADHD that they also were diagnosed with bipolar, but they are not bipolar. And I know it's because they're so ADHD. The medicine didn't do anything. They don't have classic bipolar symptoms.

But when they tested for things, I'm sure. , it's

Katy: oh yeah. So, I'm gonna go then cover the hyperactivity impulsivity criteria side of things. 

Laura: Oh, real quick. One more last thing before you get started. So mine has classically been, like, most women have, if diagnosed, are diagnosed with inattentive. Now, not exclusively. But it seems to be that it's more

Katy: inattentive. A hundred per, oh yeah, a hundred, a hundred percent, and that's [00:32:00] why it was so overlooked and diagnosed for women whenever they, we were 

Laura: Yes, we were literally called, I just watched a video, how about, we were considered like the forgotten generation with hyperactivity. Because it does not rep, it does not, what Katy's gonna go through presents itself differently in men and women. Whereas inattentive is pretty , across the board.

Even men are like, oh, , if you're forgetful, you're forgetful. It's not anyway, go

Katy: and so back and well and back in the day I mean it was these were the symptoms whenever people said oh you have ADHD like these were the things that you were like Whoop ADHD the inattentive was frequently overlooked altogether. I Was diagnosed as a kid I wasn't medicated, but I was diagnosed as a kid because I was combined type because my impulse or hyper hyperactivity Yeah, it was so it was prevalent 

Laura: Yeah, because inattentive, you might have just been considered lazy or a

daydreamer. 

Katy: yeah, yep, a hundred percent I and I was both so I was a little yeah Yeah, Lazy Hibernate, you're

Laura: that Katy's the worst kid.

Katy: [00:33:00] right, but, but that brings up another thing , that goes outside the diagnostic criteria, like we've, laughed about a lot of things and a lot of it too, it, it hurts because it's true because of how society is and how we're looked at and stuff, but There's a fact out there that says that kids with ADHD, by the time they're 12, are told 20, 000 negative things about themselves, or how they think, how they feel, is wrong by the time that they're 12.

Alright, so if you figure that time between 3 to 4 years old, when you actually start to form memories and start to really comprehend things, to 12, 20, 000 times. Alright, that works out to be seven, nine times a day, you were told that as a kid with ADHD, how you think, how you feel is incorrect, is wrong.

And it's, and yeah, and how you act, it's, and it's all by the people that are closest to you. It's not your strangers. It's your parents. It's your teachers. It's those who are trusted adults that are telling you that something is wrong with you. And so that was my 

Laura: reframing that. Yeah, right? Because there are. I try and be very conscious about [00:34:00] saying that there are things that are inappropriate, right? At least in today's standards, right? It is inappropriate to like what I struggled with which was always interrupting and talking out of turn.

That is not appropriate. But that doesn't mean that there's some, that I'm wrong, that I'm wrong inside,

Katy: Yes. Yeah. 

You're not 

Laura: reframing, yes, it's the reframing of that as that is an inappropriate behavior but that does not mean that you're a bad person.

Katy: and, and, and, but again, whenever you're told growing up, seven, eight, nine times a day that you're wrong, 

Laura: And that you're too much. Can you just tone it down? 

Can you just, 

Katy: yeah, and so that's, that's why That's why kids with ADHD learn to mask and they learn to hide that everything because we're constantly told that we're wrong that we're Not going to achieve stuff Whenever it is like reframing that's like the biggest thing of how to do with my son is Teaching him the positives and being very upfront to be like buddy This is going to be a struggle there he is so freaking smart He's in advanced classes, but [00:35:00] the classroom is not set up for a boy with adhd 

Laura: it's not. It's not. and

 Yeah. And that it's gonna be a, and that, that you have to walk the fine line of, be yourself, but know that there are appropriate responses to things.

Katy: Yeah, and and he 

Laura: Which is very hard.

Katy: Yeah, and he knows like he can be himself with me. He knows he can do and say certain things with me where he can't at school just because like He can interrupt me because and I tell him that I'm like we're on the way home as soon as I pick him up we have about a 40 minute drive with traffic and everything between his school and home and He just went and I'll tell him be like hey are you just talking to talk, is what I ask him, are you just talking to talk, and he goes, yes, because that's what he just needs to, he just needs to info dump everything, and I'm like, okay, dude, go for it, and I just have to listen, half the time I zone out, because I have ADHD too,

Laura: And he's just talking to, he told you,

Katy: he's talking to talk, yeah, so it's finding, finding that, that balance for both of us,

Laura: And I think that's too, like in the section you were about to talk about the hyperactivity, that's where [00:36:00] behaviors , are considered inappropriate for society. Like you can be, people don't like people who are considered lazy and forgetful. You know what I mean? But 

Katy: not an 

outward action, 

Laura: Right. The hyperactivity and the impulsivity is where 

Katy: it's noticed,

Laura: it's noticed, And there are really, there truly are right and wrong ways to respond. Just because you feel these big emotions doesn't mean you get to just explode on people, right? Like it's navigating those things, realizing that you do have something to overcome,

Katy: Yeah, yeah,

Laura: you're not a bad person.

Yeah. And

that's, and I think that's where we're really learning to do things

Katy: yeah, and again, with my son, I constantly tell him, and I've said it earlier in this episode, too, that, everything with ADHD is it's amplified. So people might have some of it, but it's amplified tenfold. Especially with emotions, and especially with kids and ADHD,

Laura: All kids are emotional toddlers, but it's harder

Katy: It's so hard, because if they are mad, they are mad. But like I've told Lucas, I was like, Buddy, [00:37:00] but here's, here's the beauty of all of this. Yes, you might have big feelings, but you are probably gonna love and care about people deeper than other people out there. So whenever you say, , you love your mom and dad, I know you mean that so deeply.

 With his whole being of who he is, he loves his mom and dad. 

Laura: Yeah. You get, like, overwhelmed by the

Katy: Yes. Yeah. And so that's SIM. So it's finding that balance. So let's go ahead and jump into the hyperactivity impulsive criteria of it. , so again, the hyperactive impulsivity, that's the first thing. , so that's the key trait of ADHD that I know I personally know very well.

And many of you who, have probably experienced or have seen it in action is impulsivity. Basically, when you have an ADHD brain, it has this interesting relationship with impulsive decisions. And it all starts with the prefrontal cortex, which, in a sense, is the brain's version of a brake pedal. The prefrontal cortex helps us to think before we act, to hit pause and say, Hey, maybe [00:38:00] we shouldn't text your ex at 2 AM, or maybe don't buy that inflatable unicorn costume at 2 AM.

2 a. m. Like because I've done it. But so it doesn't have that break to say, Hey, let's pause and think about this before we do it or before we say it.

Laura: Which is the crazy part because essentially we have never gone past adolescence in that way, right? Like we, we still, like that's the whole thing of as a kid, they don't have any impulse control. You start to learn impulse control, but it is still so hard for us to control those impulses.

Katy: when you're an adult with adult money now. And so you can make those dreams a reality now. So it's way more fun. But for us with that prefrontal cortex, it's just not. , quite as active. So that brake pedal, for people with ADHD, just isn't quite as active.

Laura: Ready to be engaged, yeah. The break is not as easily engaged.

Katy: Yeah. So, it's like having a car that wants to go really fast, but with brakes that are only half working. And that means when a thought pops in our brain, it's way more tempting to just act on it, [00:39:00] basically, immediately, right now. There's, way less of a natural filter than most neurotypical brains have.

Laura: and I think that this is where, juxtaposition between what people have always thought of classically, like classically impulsive hd, A DHD like in the nineties for little boys was like, like my brother, who would have the impulsive thought of, I wonder what would happen if I lit this thing on fire.

And so he just did it, right? That's everybody's that's a DHD. Whereas but impulsivity is also just interrupting. Like, I am constantly interrupting

Katy: And that's one of the ones I'm 

going to 

talk about too. Yeah. Cause I'm going to talk about it because it's there and it, and all of this has to do with, again, like I was saying before, the reward system, it's all like that dopamine hit. And so that's the, that chemical that we will forever chase. It's what makes it feel good.

It's what helps motivate us. And there's this constant craving for the dopamine. Cause once we get a little bit of it, that's what makes it feel quote unquote normal. 

And

we're going to 

Laura: the feeling that you're gonna forget [00:40:00] something, right? Like, you gotta act on it.

We're just talking about grabbing that unicorn, like you got, you know what I mean? Like,

Katy: Yep. So impulsivity, like we were saying, like whether it's impulsive actions, like buying everything in your Amazon cart, one randomly one night, or for me, like you decide to reorganize an entire garage at 11 o'clock at night.

That's when you start it. I've organized reorganized pantry at 2 a. m. because I've woken up in the middle of the night, can't sleep. I'm like, might as well do something. And so I go through the whole pantry because check all the cans and everything. Cause I'm like, Oh, This feels good. This is, I'm, I'm up.

Might as well do something. So it's, it's not just about the reward though. It's about the waiting part that can be tricky. And I'll talk about that a little bit more in another one. But for a lot of us having to wait for anything, it's a huge struggle. Because waiting not only mentally feels like torture, but physically.

Can feel like torture too. And I think that's what a lot of people overlook with ADHD is they're like, we'll just control it. We'll just do this. I don't think people understand that. Okay. For a second, let's just say if [00:41:00] we could, one, if we could, we would like, 

 Like if we could just turn that switch on and just not say those things.

 But at the same time, a lot of these things, we physically feel it. Well, sorry, emotionally feel it, but we also physically, it is like a physical torture through our whole 

Laura: You can feel it like, like my blood pressure will get high if I'm waiting too long in a grocery

line. Right? Like my impatience is intense.

like, 

I, 

can physically feel like shaky, like, like, yeah.

Katy: I, I get chronic, , really bad knots and tension in my back because constantly throughout the day, I realize, like, how tensed up I am, , just constantly, and that's because of stuff like this.

If it's not the constant gratification, which does relax you, which does help you relax. A lot of people with ADHD , have chronic muscle tension and they get knots in their back and things like that. Because of that. And there's a lot of really interesting science, which I'm like, I always just thought I had a really crappy back 

Laura: Plus also compounding the anxiety that comes from having ADHD, then it's even it's like double, yeah.

Katy: Yeah, so basically the impulsive thing because we [00:42:00] can't wait. A lot of it has to do with, we would rather have, again, time blindness. We would rather have the small reward now than wait for the bigger reward down the road where neurotypicals, they know that payoff is coming.

We don't know that paying off is coming. So we would rather have it right here and get this small dopamine. Again, I don't wanna be like, think of a drug addict, but it's like that 

Laura: Well, that's why there is a lot of, , there is a lot of substance abuse

Katy: Oh yeah, yes, , , I think it's , people with ADHD are four times more likely to have addiction issues than a neurotypical, and this is one of them, it's because it's a feel good, you're getting that dopamine hit when you're not getting it any other way, so you're self medicating essentially, and that's unfortunate, but with the impulsivity, even if it's, I would, I want to buy this now because it's that little dopamine hit now rather than well Let me wait for a month to buy it because yes, I don't have the money right now in my budget That would be the most sensible thing is to wait till you know The next paycheck or wait till next month when I do have the money.

Yeah, but It's going [00:43:00] to feel really fun right now if I get it. And I'll just, that's down the road, and I'll deal with the bills, down the road whenever they get here kind of thing. So , it's a little bit more right now in those tiny rewards because we can't anticipate the big dopamine hit down the road.

Laura: Which is so, so, Let me, that's two side, two stories. These are relevant. These are relevant. This has been, this and the executive dysfunction are my hardest. And I never as a, I never growing up considered myself a very impulsive.

I don't actually think most people would have considered me an impulsive person because I'm not thinking of the traditional, like putting myself in danger. Although I was a bit of an adrenaline junkie, about some things. But. On my report card in elementary school, I, like I was saying, I remember facts.

I'm so good at remembering facts and memorization, but where I always did badly, in elementary school, they didn't care about this in high school, that was only academics, but in elementary school, they're grading on you, , those other things, those social skills. Needs improvement was always talking out of turn,

100%. And [00:44:00] so when I was in school, and you got your cards pulled, okay, for talking out of turn or whatever, that eventually went to, you had to sit on the black line in the gym, and then you lose your first five minutes of recess. The amount of times that I was on the black line, I never got to swing on the swings, because those were the first to be taken, which meant you had to be out that door, and so, And it wasn't even for doing anything malicious.

Like, I was not a bad kid. I just could not keep my mouth shut. I 

Katy: Yeah. That's what I was gonna say too is School's not meant for people with ADHD because okay, so you sitting on that line every single day You've already heard, seven to nine times a day what you're doing is wrong Then you're adding in shame because once again, you're on that line.

And so 

Laura: And everyone knows it. 

And 

you feel bad. Cause I feel guilty. I didn't want to disappoint adults. In fact, that's another thing. I loved hanging out with adults. And I hated disappointing adults. And that did equate to, as an elementary kid, It didn't matter that much, like the shame of peers didn't matter that

much to me. But then I got to [00:45:00] middle school and that's when I finally learned my lesson of not talking out because I was shamed so badly in front of my seventh grade class by my English teacher. He was like, what is wrong? , he, it was like brutal and I stopped opening my mouth because and that was what it took.

It took that memory of being that and it wasn't until college that I started to feel more comfortable. talking 

to adults again. So that is my biggest struggle and I had just for our listeners I just went on this supervisor's management school thing and I like messaged Katy on my first day because we had to do these Clifton Strengths assessments Which is a cool way of thinking about your personality, which is your strengths.

My main strength is communication, but under communication was how can this get in the way of your success? And one of them was interrupting and verbally processing. And that's when I texted Katy and I was like, my dominant personality trait is impulsive ADHD.

 That's who I am. And so being told [00:46:00] to not talk so much, that's actually the most who I am.

Katy: And that, and that, 

Laura: hearing that over and over again, thankfully, my parents were never like, shut up. Like, my mom is like,

Katy: mom was. 

Laura: all about, yeah, but I, it could have been a lot worse for me. And, and then I was able, I felt so good, able to, I think it was last year, we had a field trip. And there was this little girl who could not, Stop talking out of turn.

She was probably like in third grade. And I was co teaching, so I wasn't, I was just shadowing for a new person. So I wasn't actually necessary to be there. I just had to be there to watch our new staff person. So instead, I just sat down next to this little girl. And she wanted to hold my hand. And I was like, if you need to say something, just tell me.

And she's like, cause I actually can't stop.

Katy: Yeah, girl, 

Laura: stop. 

Katy: I hear you. 

Laura: I know. And I almost made me want to cry because I was like, I hear you. And so she whispered to me the entire time, all relevant to what we were

Katy: Yeah, 

Laura: about, it was [00:47:00] just an info dump, a constant info dump because she had to verbally process everything she was hearing, but our school systems can't support that 

Katy: yeah. 

Laura: enough.

Katy: Yeah, 

Laura: And I was like, Oh, but I was glad at least for that one day that I could give that kid what she

Katy: Yeah. And again, it goes back to how this, how everything that you're told as a kid whenever you have ADHD, it is told that you're flawed, that you're not quote unquote normal, that you're not, that it takes, oftentimes, us until we're well into our adulthood before we're , and you have to do, gosh, a really hard truth, 

you 

Laura: Well, right. Accepting. You get to the acceptance

Katy: Yeah. And it takes, and it takes a while and it takes a lot of , I don't know, vulnerability on your own part to be like, okay, this is how this is what I know I suck at. This is what I know I'm good at. And ,even now I practice like the vulnerability stuff with my employees. I'm just truthful with them.

I'm like, listen, you guys know I'm horrible at this. , so I either delegated out, or I I'm like, Hey, you got to put that on your, if you're going to be out, I appreciate you telling me. That does nothing to me. [00:48:00] Tell me, put it on your calendar, and then whenever you're gone that day and somebody's Hey, where are you?

I'll be like, I don't know. And then I can look at your calendar like, oh, that's where you are. You did tell me. I remember that, but , now I do. So let's then go on to the next one here, because I think, let me see here. I have restlessness is next, and then the next one after that is interrupting and talking excessively too, because again, it's, it's 

spread throughout 

all of it. 

Yeah, so restlessness, if you got ADHD, you probably know this feeling too well, it's like your body has a mind of its own, and it has , To move, but what's actually going on there when we feel the need to fidget, wiggle, or sometimes practically like just bounce out of our

Laura: As I'm here, in my lap. I've been doing this the whole

Katy: have to do something. So what's happening with ADHD is that the brain's always hunting for stimulation again, like a little kid on a sugar high at a theme park. We're constantly looking for that high. So there's a constant craving for something new, something interesting, something to do.

And when there's not enough happening of that new, something different to [00:49:00] do our bodies. Like just start making their own entertainment. I 

Laura: And it's crazy.

Katy: Yeah, because, because it, it ha it has to do something. Yeah. So that's why you'll see a lot of us tapping our feet, bouncing a leg, playing with pens, doodling, doing something.

And it's not that. And again, this goes back to how schools are not meant for kids. Because how many times are you doodling in school and they're like, stop doing that. Pay attention. It's I am paying attention, but this is how I pay attention. I am an adult. I'm 36 years old and I have fidget toys on my desk.

Now they're, they're professional looking. So let me, this one that I love a lot is from Stimara, S T I M A R A, and it's the stim mags. It's like these little magnets. Post thingy my doodles and so it's what as I throw it on my laptop And so it's not that they're not I mean I was gonna say it's not that I don't That they don't look professional as I have a 3d printed t rex that my 

son 

Laura: yeah, we have some 3D printed

Katy: Yeah, so we have some fun [00:50:00] ones, but then there's another one.

It's a Oh No roller And I'm showing these on camera. So if you go to our patreon and support us, you'll be able to see what I'm showing here So for me and I have other ones that are at home, but for me, it's very much Like a weight 

Laura: Ooh, mine's a texture

thing. 

Katy: okay. Yeah. And

Laura: Like, I like the squishy ones. Like, that I can stretch,

Katy: Yeah. See, I'm not, that does nothing that, that does nothing for me.

It's a weight. And so I have this one that I wish I had it with me, but you hold it with two of your fingers. It's almost like a fidget spinner, like the kids ones, those little spinny things, but it's just one arm and it just spins because it's feeling the weight distribution. Cause I have another one here.

That's one of the cubes that's Part of it's like the middle part of it spins. 

Laura: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you can feel it going around wobbling.

Katy: yeah. And so for me, it's like that, that weight that I can feel. Cause it's not a, for me, it's almost the easiest way for me to explain is like your texture for me. Texture is almost an intrusive on like my sensory [00:51:00] system.

So it almost interrupts it. Whereas weight or like feeling like the movement almost feels like a wave. Like I'm 

just sitting there. Yeah. I'm just riding a 

Laura: how sound works for some

people. 

Katy: yeah, yeah. So,

Laura: oh go ahead.

Katy: oh no, I was gonna say, so because, so that if I'm in a movie, in a meeting, and I know I have a big meeting coming up, especially like the oh no ruler, that, this is, everybody's like, what the heck is that?

Cause it's not it doesn't look like a,

Laura: Does it just like flip 

Katy: yeah, yeah, so it feels, so it's just like constant, and so I can just have my hand, like, under the table in a meeting, nobody's any of the wiser, and I'm just like, boop, boop, boop, but that's, that's how I pay attention, 

Laura: Well, I think that this didn't really manifest that much for me until I became an adult because school, as a kid, there wasn't a lot of down time, right? Like, you're not driving as a kid, you're not, like, I'm taking notes, I took notes as a kid, a lot, so like, I'm writing. There was something physical, and I would adjust, it's not that I couldn't stay in my chair, that was not it for me at all, but I do sit in weird positions in my

Katy: Oh, that's a, [00:52:00] yeah. Another A DHD hallmark 

Laura: I am cross legged right now in this chair or like I'm on one foot and then I switch positions But now that I'm an adult and there is so much more downtime in the car.

I'm constantly picking my cuticles and then if I'm watching tv. I'm also doing something else I try and make it something I don't know clay like something not just on my phone. But and then for my entire life, and I don't know if this is a stim thing, or like a, or an ADHD thing, but when I get tired, and to calm myself down, , I move my leg back and forth, like, like a, like a ch ch ch ch

in the 

sheets. Yeah, only, it's just one, it's usually just one leg, , and it's not a lot of movement, it's just like enough that your foot is getting constantly brushed,

like someone is like, 

Katy: Yeah. They call that

Laura: in the, Okay, so like mine's not even against, it could be, it could be in the couch cushions. It could be anywhere by itself.

Katy: They call it cricketing. It's because it crickets how they rub their legs together. Yeah. It's like

Laura: So I do that and [00:53:00] I didn't know, so my dad does that to the point where every time my parents get a pair of sheets there's one spot that wears out in the sheets and my grandmother did that unbeknownst to anybody else until later. , you can see the direct path. Oh, , we all did the same movement.

Katy: ADHD is very hereditary and I laugh all the time. So my uncle on my dad's side has the classic typical boy, ADHD didn't finish high school, how to get his GED. Was kicked out of one school to the next, because they just didn't know what to do with kids with ADHD back then.

And so when I talked to my grandma about my symptoms or what I'm doing now differently with Luke, first of all, she's always, she always says how proud of me she is. One, she's my grandma, but two, she genuinely means it because she 

had a kid with. Yeah, she had a kid with ADHD, and how much, more we know, but I'll be explaining my own symptoms to her, and she'll be like, , oh, yeah, no, that totally makes sense, and I'm , so badly.

Sweet Ruth, who does listen to our podcast a lot, I always just want to be like, Grandma, it, you, like this, you understand me, because [00:54:00] it's, it's, it's also you, like, this is, it's hereditary,

like, With my whole heart, I love her and I do consider her one of my best friends. I really do. I love my grandma, my dad's mom.

I absolutely love her. But it's because, she, she gets me. And I'm like, Grandma, you totally have inattentive ADHD to an extent, too. , the restlessness. And so, that's That what you're describing is like the cricketing.

It's, for me, I just rub my feet together, which is

Laura: I, my cousin, so I'll be having a sleepover with somebody when I was younger and they'd be like, stop, 

Katy: Yeah, you just can't. 

Laura: ch, ch, ch, like you can hear that noise. 

Like it's dead silent in the

room. No, it.

doesn't literally not at all. I do it to fall asleep. Like I need that stimulation to fall

asleep. Cause it's my brain needs nothing 

Katy: Yes. Yeah. To you, you don't hear it. , it totally is a subconscious thing to you where everybody else is gonna hear

Laura: It's like the pen tapping, right? Like I don't do that, but I know that 

people 

don't notice that they're doing 

that. 

Katy: Yeah.

Laura: dad's a leg tapper. Hardcore. That guy's legs are always jiggling. [00:55:00] Right. 

Katy: So yeah, so for us, , doing something like that, playing with a fidget toy, it is our way to stay engaged.

And so whenever teachers are, , stopping kids or, somebody's in meetings, pshh, what are you doing? This is how I pay attention. , this is so that I can, so that my brain keeps working and it does stay engaged. This is what I have to do because you have so much pent up energy and because you're being forced to sit still for such a long period of time.

That's like releasing a little bit of energy at a time. And so this is why they say for people, so to be like, just to be transparent about stuff, like I have a dog and it is a a medical dog. Part of it is he is, does very good for alerting me with my heart stuff. Like when my, stress levels go up, he alerts me.

Cause that's when I start to have heart issues, but very much so for my ADHD and now a medical dog, ADHD isn't definitely not for everybody, but for me, it's definitely worked and it's been huge and beneficial and one of it is because he is a beagle and so he loves going for runs.

It burns off his Yeah, [00:56:00] it burns off his energy, it burns off my energy, and that's why, working out in the morning for people with ADHD is so good because you burn off some of that, built up energy for a bit. First thing in the morning, and then you're, like, good to go , day.

 And and I definitely could tell days where I do work out in the morning versus days that I don't, I feel way better. Because again, it's you can feel that pent up energy. You can feel like the tension in your back. It's your body just holds onto that energy in different places.

Read the, , the body keeps score. It's a fairly popular book or becoming a fairly popular book about how, throughout your life, different things, different traumas, whatever that happened to to your body, , your body hangs onto that and you have to. Deal with that or else it just, it keeps score, it keeps in there and built up energy around your body.

I mean, energies can't be created nor destroyed. And so it's gotta go somewhere 

Laura: Inflammation. The root of all evil.

Katy: Yeah. Right. And so sitting there and running in the morning gets rid of it and stuff because it, and you, it helps with that restlessness throughout [00:57:00] the day. And then just breaking up periods of restlessness.

Like I know if I've had a particularly long meeting and then I have to go into another meeting, people are like, Oh, do you want to sit down? I'm like, no, I can't. I physically can not sit down because my body starts to hurt. It starts to hurt. Cause I got, I got to move. It

Laura: Well, I think that's why, too, I knew I would never be able to work at just a desk forever. I like that my job requires me to be up and down and up and down and up and down. It's pretty conducive to the way my mental state needs to

Katy: Yeah, , alright, so the next one here. Interrupting or talking excessively. Haha, welcome to our 

Laura: As we do it I was gonna We'll just At least we're fi Like, that's, , the blessing, is once you can find somebody that you, vibe with

Katy: Oh yeah, they get you? Yeah.

Laura: your past, right? We can constantly interrupt each other. I'm never mad that

you interrupt me. It literally doesn't even cross my mind to be upset that you've interrupted

Katy: Never never and the number of times that I'm as I'm editing our episodes that I'll have to delete parts that you say Or that I say and then I have to pick who's you know Who's gonna talk in this section because one it's overlap because there's a delay And so [00:58:00] we can't hear each other in live time or in person, but yeah, it's never and again It's because we get each other because we're like, okay.

I know if I don't say this. I'm gonna forget it

Laura: Yeah, and it's never malicious. It's not that I don't respect you. It has nothing to do with respect,

guys. If somebody's interrupting you, it's not, it probably isn't for

Katy: Yes. So what's actually happening in the ADHD brain whenever this is impulsivity with everything else. All right, a big part of it has to do with impulse control, which we've talked about, or just like the general like brain gatekeeper, essentially.

So in a neurotypical brain, that prefrontal cortex again, acts as a filter helping decide that break, helping decide which thoughts are okay to say out loud and which maybe stay in the brain for at least a little bit. , But for those of us with ADHD, this filter isn't as strong or fully present. We can say it.

So on top of that, ADHD brains are wired to grab onto what feels rewarding, rewarding right now. So when something exciting or thought pops into our head, or [00:59:00] again, with this one, I feel like people, I feel like this one's overlooked medically, like professionally, I should say, because a big one for this one is connection.

So a lot of times it's that impulsivity because you have something that can relate to somebody else. So think about this as your childhood, all those times you're told, people that you're told you're wrong, what you're doing is incorrect. That seeps into your friendships. So I always say, especially like I see it with my son, it was true for me as a kid.

People with ADHD are frequently, we're great at making friends, but we're horrible at keeping friends just because of how our brains work. So again, why have Laura and I been friends for so long? Because let's say whenever we did take a break, we would maybe talk to each other, shoot a message like once every month or so to be like, Hey, you good?

Yep. Good. Okay. And that was it. Like,

Laura: can exist without one another, but we like it when we're in touch.

Katy: yeah, and so because of the connection a lot of times whenever we blurt out a thought That's our way of connecting and that's the dopamine is oh, you're [01:00:00] saying something I have something that relates to that. 

Laura: Thousand percent, right? That's this whole podcast episode, guys. As long as this is going, I'm sure you can hear in our voices that we're both getting more and more excited as we're talking to each other. Because it's we're like, boom, ba boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and we're connecting all these lines to each other.

 It's not even, and it's the same way when somebody with ADHD, some people I think see it as there certainly are people that are like, one uppers,

Katy: Well, that's what I was 

just gonna say Yeah, they say they think it's a one upping thing and it's it's not 

Laura: it's 

not

There are some people who try to, who do it as a bragging

thing, but the rest of us, if you bring up the fact that you or your house was on fire, I would be like, oh my gosh, it's terrible.

One time, and then I am literally just throwing out a lot, , my

brain sees the lines. Yeah, that's the way I, exactly. The way I show empathy is showing that I have been through something. I get it. I make the connection. I'm not dismissing what you're going through at all. I am simply saying I

get it [01:01:00] because of this. yeah, 

yeah, 

Katy: This is this is how I can meet you where you are so that We can make that connection so that if you do need to vent if you do need to talk I've been through that I might not understand it completely because I'm not in your shoes currently But this is what I've been through and maybe we can meet in the middle And so a lot of times for people who One, it's that, hey, I'm either gonna say this now or else I'm gonna forget it.

Or two, for us, the dopamine hit is the connection. It is yeah, I'm quick to make friends, hard to hold on to them unless you And that's kinda like the benefit, and that's what I tell my son all the time. The benefit of being an adult With ADHD is you do find those lifelong friends because you do find people that get you and understand you.

And you have much deeper relationships, as an adult, because the friends that do stick around are the ones that you truly want to have around.

Laura: Well, and that's where, my personality, my ADHD, Is kept in check in that way. One of my other, strengths is the fact that I like to collect things which is both information and relationships. I have, I make [01:02:00] friends and I have friends that I've collected through my life and I constantly reach out to people because, that's my, I need the feel I like to surround myself but it is those people like, if you look at my friend group that We're all a bunch of weird nerds.

 Which is because we all get each

Katy: Yeah, you get each other. Yeah, and so this one can definitely be hard and I will say my boyfriend shout out to the squirrel guy again he's very very good at this because in the past like we said before somebody either thinks you're one upping them interrupting you or They'll either entertain you and then they hold on to that regret that they know that you're always gonna interrupt them and they look at It as malicious when it's not

Laura: Right, yeah.

Katy: He's, he's very good with saying hold on, let me finish.

And then we'll come back. And he smirks. So I know he knows that this is just how I am, but because he is neurotypical, he does remember whenever he's done, he'll say, he doesn't just say, okay, now, what were you going to say? And kind of act annoyed about it, which has been almost all of my, 

[01:03:00] romantic relationships. It's almost like an annoyance of like, all right. Now, what were you going to say? Well, I don't remember now because I'm forgetful. I don't remember but he's amazing at where he frames it. Okay I was talking about xyz and you started to say And then he'll be like continue and i'm like, oh, yeah, so he's like 

Laura: Yeah, help me pick up that thread again, 

Katy: yeah.

where i'm , listen, you could just say hold on we'll circle back to that and then by the time you're like Okay, what were you gonna say? I'm like, I don't know. 

Laura: I think it's because my brain, if you let that strand go, it's because I have prioritized the conversation that I'm listening

to, so I'm gonna listen to it with my whole being, because everything else in me is thinking about running, , brain wise. So then, you're like, , that thread is gone.

I let it

Katy: It's gone. Yeah, 

Laura: Because I had to, because my hands are full listening to what you're

Katy: yes. Yeah, and so he's been amazing Because I know the smirk that he gives because it's almost constant where he's like, hang on because he Want you know and rightfully so like he should finish what he's saying.

He's the one talking and

Laura: this is where I was talking about, , I'm sure Laura is going to be very similar to me [01:04:00] and Justin, and I want her to know that there are times when it is going to be considered inappropriate,

Katy: It should bounce back and forth. It should bounce back and forth, but there are times where you are truly just interrupting. Yeah, and that's whenever I am actually interrupting, because I'll just be like, oh, and he'll be like, hang on, that's all. That's all I ever get out. Oh, hey, this one, and he'll be like, hold on, and he smirks because, he just knows he's not supposed to.

me, but he's so patient and so sweet about it, but again, the key is that he at least has the memory long enough to be like, okay, I started saying this and you started to say this. Go ahead and continue. Whereas I'm like, again, like you said, if we let that if it was up to us, like that thread would have already been like long gone a long time ago.

 So that definitely has a challenges. 

 We're going to go into real briefly because I know we've had you guys a long time, but we're going to go into some of the positives. Because again, a lot of these seem like negatives, but I want to go into the

Laura: Right, and we keep talking about our struggles, but we both have, like we said at the beginning, we found a lot of workarounds. And it's a lot of fun. Like, I don't, I, no [01:05:00] regrets.

Katy: yeah,

 and these are, skimming the surface of the positives because the older I'm getting, the more accepting I'm getting of different things, of my ADHD.

The more I'm learning, especially within the workplace, all right, you don't have to be good at everything. And I think that's something our society gets wrong often. You don't have to be good at everything. Find your niche and really lean into that. And a lot of the things that I'm really good at within my niche is my ADHD.

Because oftentimes, there's so many people ADHD your entire personality. Well, guess what it is? Like, it 

is my 

Laura: like a really weird thing to say because it truly is your personality.

Like, That's your brain,

Katy: It's your brain. Yeah. And things like anxiety, you know, depression. Yeah. You might not want it to be all about, but like ADHD comes with some really, really big perks.

Whereas like anxiety, I would 

Laura: Right, 

that's only negative. Come on. Besides, like, when you have to survive.

Katy: that's what I was gonna say. The only, the perk of it is survival. And unfortunately, nowadays, you don't, for the most part, you don't have to constantly [01:06:00] be in a fight or flight response, or back whenever humans were first evolving.

 That was a huge benefit, was to be anxious, to be constantly on alert. Not so much anymore. But with ADHD, there are some really, really, really cool positives. And so, one of the first things I want to talk about, the out of the world creativity we're literally wired to constantly be thinking outside the box.

 We're con. Yep, constantly bouncing between ideas and connections. And we often end up with unique insights or creative solutions that most of the time others, others completely miss. And it's almost think of having a constant active idea factory, the number of companies and ideas and products brains that I've had.

I was like, like one, that is how my ADHD brain works, but I would be a billionaire by now. I guarantee it. If I also didn't have a, if I 

could just have. Yeah, I can't do the function to make it all happen. But the number of ideas that I constantly come up with when I share with people, they're like, Oh my gosh, that's amazing.

I'm like, I [01:07:00] know, cause it's my brain. But things like coming up with, podcast ideas, coming up with ideas just in general, That's why so many people with ADHD are they're musicians. They're artists of some sort. It's because that creativity, the out of the box, we're natural storytellers.

Laura: I was just about that's what I think is pro and that's because that's my leading strength of my personality type is that I'm a fantastic storyteller because I am able to connect the lines for people that, like the dots, I can easily connect dots that people cannot see.

And I remember everything about things so like I can weave.

I'm a good

Katy: So that's my next one is pattern recognition. And that's exactly what you're talking about. And this is, I would say, yes, I'm creative, but I'm creative because I have insane pattern recognition. And. If you're ADHD and you're looking for something to put on your resume, 

pattern recognition, 

Laura: game, dude. That Connections

game. That, oh my gosh, that's the perfect for somebody with

Katy: Right? And so [01:08:00] ADHD brains are fantastic at spotting patterns and making connection where others just see complete randomness. It all makes sense to us. It's like we have a built in radar for seeing relationships between things, which makes us great at everything from problem solving to analyzing complex information.

Especially, like we were saying earlier, if it's a new , boom. If you're at a workplace right now and you're a manager and you have a hard problem to solve you're like man This is complex has so many moving pieces do it Give it to your adhd person because they will figure it out because their pattern recognition is insane , it's also why you'll hear your adhd friend often predicts the ending of a movie.

That's pattern recognition 

Laura: And problem sol like, puzzle

Katy: Yes. It's just constant in our head puzzles all

Laura: And I like problems. I like a good challenge and a

good 

Katy: too. Yeah, and because, again, it's that dopamine hit for us. It's this is complex. Nobody else can do it. I can absorb it. I'm already seeing these patterns [01:09:00] Easily, I don't know why you guys can't see all these connections And that's also why you'll hear a lot of people with ADHD.

They'll say their intuition their gut This is typically it you're taking in people with ADHD taking so much more external stimuli than someone that's neurotypical From day to day, everybody takes in a lot of information that you don't realize, it's in your subconscious. ADHD people take in a lot more than that, and it's just, within our subconscious, it's sorting and pattern recognition, and putting and sorting all these things to make, have it make sense.

And , if you have an ADHD friend who is, , My gut intuition is this, typically you should probably trust them, because it's typically going to be spot on. And , they might not be able to fully explain it, that's the one thing that meds do for me, versus me on ADHD meds, versus me not on ADHD meds,

the meds, help me to organize and be able to articulate those thoughts so I can now say, Okay, this is why, and I can, for the most part, for the most [01:10:00] part, explain the pattern recognition to other people. Not all the times. Other times I'm just like, This makes sense. And they're like, well, why?

I'm like, I don't know. It just does. You're just gonna have to trust me on this one.

Laura: My third CliftonStrengths thing is strategic, which is always having at least three options so you can change. I feel like we're very flexible people.

Katy: Very, very much so. Very, very much

Laura: Although, there are some, so there are different spectrums of ADHD. Where some people, you might be flexible, but some people hate change.

Like some ADHD, there's a lot of people that, like classic ADHD, you're like, I hate change.

Because you're comfortable, and you've made your SOPs, and like, do not pull me out of that. 

Katy: and there's a lot of overlap. Another huge comorbid one is autism with ADHD. And so the autism side of the ADHD, that can very much they overlap. Is, and that was one thing I was going to say earlier and I forgot to, but, People don't think you're paying attention because you don't like eye contact.

That's very much so an ADHD and autism thing. It's not that we're not paying attention. It's just eye contact is extremely uncomfortable. I can't explain it. It just very, very, [01:11:00] very, very much so

is. 

Laura: I think it's because I, for me sometimes I'm overanalyzing it, right? Am I looking at him too long? Am I looking at him too long? Am I looking

Katy: Am I looking in one eyeball or both eyeballs? How do you look in 

one eyeball? yeah.

That's that scene from Moana whenever the crab is at the bottom and he's choose an eye pick an eye and he's like switching It's that's I'm constantly running through that in my brain how do you look at two eyes at the same time?

You can't you can only focus on one thing Like yeah, so that's constantly going through my brain. So it's just it's just let's just avoid that all together Another one is hyper focus. Like Laura was talking about like she has extreme focus I can if I'm like super super into it. So I said about how I Had the flu and I beat Red Dead Redemption 2 in one weekend.

, in less than a day I learned how to solve a Rubik's Cube because I was like I'm gonna do this my son was Like I want to learn how to solve this. I'm like I can do this 

Laura: Yeah. and

 I hyperfixate on topics and I, so like I can tell you a lot about a lot of different

topics because I like to dive in. Yeah.

Katy: Right all this. , I would say one time I think I told this in the brains the brains episode two We were [01:12:00] going to Florida once and I was like, you know what? I really want a saltwater fish I learned so much about saltwater fishing. We want saltwater fishing from a dock one time 

But I guarantee like I guarantee you I know way more About saltwater fishing than 90 percent of the people out there because I like binge 

Laura: Yeah. 

Katy: Thank you. I know. Yes. If you're going to do it, you're going to do it. We talk about all the fun hobby and stuff like this, but it also translate to okay, if you're in the workplace and again, people with ADHD, you got to have an ADHD friendly job to some extent or 

Laura: yeah, because you're, the time management and the organization will totally eat you alive if you're in the wrong

environment.

Katy: Yeah. And, and 

Laura: do not have a flexible workplace,

yeah, it's not gonna be good. Yeah.

Katy: hyper focus Was we were talking about one day at work like how funny it would be If we could create an animated video about a little pile of poo that went through [01:13:00] the wastewater system And we're like oh man too bad none of us know how to do cartoon animation I'm like not right now.

We do but give me a day or two and sure enough a week later We had a whole little animation Animated video about this little pile of poo and narrate full on narration. That sounds like a british wildlife document, you know, documentate documentary narration and did I know how to do this before?

Nope, but now I do and it's the same thing with drawing Like I said, i've always wanted to draw I started drawing with my son last fall for some kids YouTube videos shout out to the what is it the art hub for kids? I think it's called amazing Now I can draw, which is again, there is nothing, I don't want to say like worse, but chat GBT has probably been the best and the worst thing for somebody with ADHD because it has allowed me to bring my brain to life.

Whereas My things that have stopped me before is I don't know how to do that. Like, you know, it'd be really cool if I could do this or if I could scrape the internet for this information, put it on an Excel spreadsheet, do this. But there's no way that I know how to do that. [01:14:00] I could put that in a chat.

GBT, it can help give me step by step information. Chat, GBT has unleashed my brain. And I'm just like, This is so good and so bad at the same time because if somebody is going to take over the world, it'd probably be somebody with ADHD, like for the better, like just because of just like the craziness of if we put our mind to something, it's, it's all, it's all or none, 

Laura: You're all in. And that's the other thing that I think is a real asset is you're very, most of us are very passionate

people because, like you were saying earlier, we have big emotions because we have impulse control. So when you have an emotion, you have an emotion fully. 

Katy: Yeah. 

Laura: hard to regulate those emotions.

So for the good or for bad, you're passionate, which can make you a real, a true, true friend.

Katy: Yes. So if I like you and you're in my life daily, it's because I actually care about you. Or, or, if I like know you and I just don't talk to you that often, again ADHD, out of sight out of mind, is unfortunately the same thing with people when it sucks. [01:15:00] But , if you're around, I'm completely loyal and diehard in that manner.

 Another one again, I only have a few more here But another one that strength is because of everything else We've noticed is people most people are very skilled in emergencies. This is a very strong one for me, too , i'm on the emergency response team for my city because this is where I thrive because I finally feel like The rest of the world is finally at the right speed for me and everything that's going around.

So when there's a thousand things that are going on, I can say, yes, I can see these patterns that are happening because of this problem. Because of this thing, I can see the domino effects of what's going to happen. I'm pretty good at predicting what's going to happen down the road. Whereas other people might not see it.

I can not only see it, but. Go ahead and fix problems and everything for down the road. Because again, emergencies, everybody else is finally keeping up with me. I want to have an SOP, I want to have it written down because I don't want to forget things because I want [01:16:00] to be good in an emergency because I 

know I'm strong. 

Laura: the idea of organizational processes.

It's 

Katy: yeah. 

Yeah. , another one, the last two, curiosity and open mindedness, and this one kind of goes hand with the last one, is empathy and intuition. So curiosity is because our brains thrive on novelty and discovery. So we're always exploring, always learning, always questioning, which this means that we're going to be lifelong learners who are always eager to dive into new ideas, meet new people, try new things.

So again, if you're like a spouse, if you want, listen, if you're like, this marriage or whatever is getting, this relationship's getting boring, unleash your ADHD partner. Cause they'll make it fun. They'll think of something to do. 

Laura: I was like the queen of inventing games as a

kid, because I could just make something up on the

Katy: Constantly. Yeah. There's no ending to the limit of like where our brain can go constantly. And then Laura was saying too, the empathy and intuition. Again, we feel everything so much deeper. So whenever it's I like you, [01:17:00] it's I like you. Like I've, again, pattern recognition.

I see what you're doing. I see, what you're saying. , and the intuition too, like what we're talking about, like picking up on, external stimuli. Like I can tell. Somebody if their facial expressions have changed from five minutes ago, and then I'm immediately like what's wrong, and they're like

Laura: You're so much better about, I am a terri I am not. That is not where my ADHD 

excels. I am too. It, , I am more wrapped up in my internal stimuli than my external stimuli. So you've always been great at like reading people and noticing when things are off, which would make you such a good detective.

Whereas I am very good at noticing what people have said, but I am not good at reading people's faces and feelings.

Katy: Yeah,

Laura: The ADHD cocktail, right? Like, I mean, you find your other neurotypical friends, but you're not gonna be the same. 

A DHD as, is different challenges and different assets in different situations [01:18:00] too, right? Like an A DHD parent having a DHD as a parent, having HDHD as a child, having a DHD as a supervisor, in many different situations, you need to pull on different tools if you have a DHD, because you're gonna be in different circumstances requiring different things.

Katy: Yeah, yeah, very much so. And if you do have ADHD, on all of our, episodes, , you can hit on the send us a text thing. I have, a bunch of resources through my company, that I can send you, task management. I made a whole, again, thank you, JadGBD.

I made a whole Excel thing on how to prioritize tasks. It is, first of all, phenomenal. I gave it to a bunch of other people to be like, Hey, can you try this out for me? And they're like, wow, this is super helpful. They might not use it because they're not ADHD, but for somebody like me, who really struggles with prioritizing tasks and how to put things in order, I have this whole spreadsheet developed that you answer five quick questions about this thing.

And then it. It prioritizes them and then dumps them into buckets of You should complete these things this week. You should complete these [01:19:00] things in the next two to three weeks. And it prioritizes 

Laura: That's really good. I should jump on that. I

was 

just struggling 

Katy: you. I sh 

Laura: I think, I think the last thing before letting anybody go is, although executive dysfunction is a thing, and of course you're gonna have harder weeks than others, you do have to advocate for yourself

at some, at some point, right?

 There are the workarounds and there are the tools to do it, but you have to come look 

Katy: Ready. Yeah. You have to come ready to at 

Laura: although this, like this can't just be, everybody else has to change for me,

Katy: yeah, because everybody has to function together. Yeah, and that's the biggest thing is if you're the ADHD person, we are constantly being forced to live in a world that does not work for us and against us. But the reality is this is what we have to do. Like 

Laura: Right, right. It's not even about, yeah, and it's not that, we shouldn't have to do that. But to a point.

Katy: We, yeah, to a point yes, but to a point we have to. Like 

Laura: Yes, right. You can make life easier for your [01:20:00] neurotypical friends, your neurotypical children, your neurotypical spouses. But in society as a whole. We have to work within the parameters that we're given.

Katy: Yeah, and it goes both ways too, , again, , if you are neurotypical, just having the patience and the biggest thing is like the curiosity, if there's something that you don't understand, find the balance of, okay, I'm going to ask why, and your neurodivergent, whatever, friend, spouse, whatever, is going to do their best to try and explain it, and if they can't, Just ask yourself is this something that I can just let them do their thing? Is this gonna be helpful to them or is this something that like it really bothers you too? Because again, it's finding that balance and so

Laura: because you can have those hard conversations,

right? Like, although this is considered this is a, considered a disability,

Katy: Yes. Oh, I don't know it is. It's recognized by 

Laura: Right, exactly. So like you can ask for accommodations, but at the same time, You can ask those questions. Maybe not in the workplace if you're a supervisor or a true subordinate, but you can ask your friends, you can ask your spouse, you can ask your significant other, your partners.

 Have those [01:21:00] difficult, don't beat around the bush.

Please. Just ask. Or if it is a problem, let us know, like it's a problem. Because truly, it never occurred to me as a kid that the interrupting thing was a problem. Until I got told over and over and over again eventually, but some things I'm not registering that as a problem because it's not a problem for me.

Katy: Yes Because you're, you're already dealing with a hundred thousand things in your own brain that it's hard to remember that there's other things going on outside. 

Because it's just too, too overwhelming. Again, if you're neurotypical and you're like, I, you just think the ADHD is like the impulsivity and that kind of stuff. No, it's not. It's a completely different mindset. And that's a little bit of an easier way to describe it. 

 All righty guys, we'll make sure that you go and like us and support us on Patreon, cause then we can keep bringing you just random discussions like this.

Laura: Yeah, and our goal is two more episodes for the season, one mini, one regular. tuning in, and then we'll take a holiday break and bring you more content.

Katy: Yep. [01:22:00] Thanks everybody.

Laura: See ya.